Comments on: Faulty Furnace Was Not Disclosed http://www.housedetective.com/2008/02/24/faulty-furnace-was-not-disclosed/ Featuring America's Home Inspector: Nationally Syndicated Columnist, Barry Stone Sun, 11 Apr 2010 02:10:09 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Barry Stone http://www.housedetective.com/2008/02/24/faulty-furnace-was-not-disclosed/comment-page-1/#comment-786 Barry Stone Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:05:15 +0000 http://www.housedetective.com/2008/02/24/faulty-furnace-was-not-disclosed/#comment-786 Hi Jim, Actually, I don't use any advance techniques. I just shine my flashlight into the burner chambers to see if any evidence of damage or deterioration is apparent. And I watch for changes in flame patterns when the blower turns on. All I'm doing is a normal visual inspection of accessible portions of the furnace. And why do I do this? Because early in my career I had call-backs after the close of escrow, when the gas company or an HVAC contract identified a cracked heat exchanger, merely by looking with a flashlight. At that point, the buyers had a reasonable question for me: "Barry, if the gas man was able to see the crack without dismantling the furnace, why didn't you see it?" The truthful answer to that question was that I hadn't looked carefully enough. Now I look very carefully at every furnace, and when the cracks are apparent, I call them out. Regardless of the standards, that's why people hire me. Best regards, Barry Hi Jim,
Actually, I don’t use any advance techniques. I just shine my flashlight into the burner chambers to see if any evidence of damage or deterioration is apparent. And I watch for changes in flame patterns when the blower turns on. All I’m doing is a normal visual inspection of accessible portions of the furnace. And why do I do this? Because early in my career I had call-backs after the close of escrow, when the gas company or an HVAC contract identified a cracked heat exchanger, merely by looking with a flashlight. At that point, the buyers had a reasonable question for me: “Barry, if the gas man was able to see the crack without dismantling the furnace, why didn’t you see it?” The truthful answer to that question was that I hadn’t looked carefully enough. Now I look very carefully at every furnace, and when the cracks are apparent, I call them out. Regardless of the standards, that’s why people hire me.

Best regards,
Barry

]]> By: Jim Mushinsky http://www.housedetective.com/2008/02/24/faulty-furnace-was-not-disclosed/comment-page-1/#comment-781 Jim Mushinsky Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:27:48 +0000 http://www.housedetective.com/2008/02/24/faulty-furnace-was-not-disclosed/#comment-781 Dear Barry, In response to George's question; "Who is responsible to pay for this?" I feel that George is responsible for payment. I can't see how an item outside the scope of a home inspection becomes the financial responsibility of the home inspector. It sounds like you have some excellent techniques for inspecting furnaces. Definitely above and beyond the minimum requirements for my State. Consumers need to be aware that the advanced techniques you use are Optional Services and they should not expect these services with a home inspection unless they are specifically contracted for. Best Regards, Jim Dear Barry,

In response to George’s question; “Who is responsible to pay for this?” I feel that George is responsible for payment.

I can’t see how an item outside the scope of a home inspection becomes the financial responsibility of the home inspector.

It sounds like you have some excellent techniques for inspecting furnaces. Definitely above and beyond the minimum requirements for my State. Consumers need to be aware that the advanced techniques you use are Optional Services and they should not expect these services with a home inspection unless they are specifically contracted for.

Best Regards,
Jim

]]> By: Barry Stone http://www.housedetective.com/2008/02/24/faulty-furnace-was-not-disclosed/comment-page-1/#comment-765 Barry Stone Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:53:54 +0000 http://www.housedetective.com/2008/02/24/faulty-furnace-was-not-disclosed/#comment-765 Dear Jim, I know that heat exchangers are outside the scope of a home inspection, as defined by accepted standards of practice for the industry. And believe me, I'm not trying to upset that applecart. The reason for the disclaimer is that heat exchangers in most furnaces are largely concealed from view. In practice, however, home inspectors are sometimes able to observe heat exchanger damage in the immediate area of the burners. Also, rust particles in the burner chamber or irregular flame patterns can alert an inspector to possible heat exchanger damage. In my own reports, I always disclaim heat exchangers. At the same time, I carefully check for heat exchanger damage to the extent that this can be done without dismantling the furnace. On more than a few occasions, I've observed cracks and holes that were overlooked by the gas company and by HVAC contractors. This is just one of many examples of conditions that are outside the scope of a home inspection, yet are routinely reported by home inspectors. For example: We firmly disclaim code inspections, yet many of our disclosures are based upon code compliance. We just don't use the "C" word in our reports. There are many such gray areas in our business, as you well know. I've always enjoyed the heated debates that arise among home inspectors as these issues are discussed at conventions. Best regards, Barry Dear Jim,
I know that heat exchangers are outside the scope of a home inspection, as defined by accepted standards of practice for the industry. And believe me, I’m not trying to upset that applecart. The reason for the disclaimer is that heat exchangers in most furnaces are largely concealed from view. In practice, however, home inspectors are sometimes able to observe heat exchanger damage in the immediate area of the burners. Also, rust particles in the burner chamber or irregular flame patterns can alert an inspector to possible heat exchanger damage.

In my own reports, I always disclaim heat exchangers. At the same time, I carefully check for heat exchanger damage to the extent that this can be done without dismantling the furnace. On more than a few occasions, I’ve observed cracks and holes that were overlooked by the gas company and by HVAC contractors.

This is just one of many examples of conditions that are outside the scope of a home inspection, yet are routinely reported by home inspectors. For example: We firmly disclaim code inspections, yet many of our disclosures are based upon code compliance. We just don’t use the “C” word in our reports.

There are many such gray areas in our business, as you well know. I’ve always enjoyed the heated debates that arise among home inspectors as these issues are discussed at conventions.

Best regards,
Barry

]]> By: Barry Stone http://www.housedetective.com/2008/02/24/faulty-furnace-was-not-disclosed/comment-page-1/#comment-764 Barry Stone Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:36:46 +0000 http://www.housedetective.com/2008/02/24/faulty-furnace-was-not-disclosed/#comment-764 Mike, I'm happy to conduct a respectful discussion with you. Could we please leave out the ad hominem invectives? I asked you, "If a home inspector is unable to test a furnace but reports that it is functional, are you saying that this is an acceptable practice...?" You didn't answer that question. So let me rephrase it: Is it ok to report that a furnace is function if it was not tested? Yes or no? Barry Stone Mike,
I’m happy to conduct a respectful discussion with you. Could we please leave out the ad hominem invectives?

I asked you, “If a home inspector is unable to test a furnace but reports that it is functional, are you saying that this is an acceptable practice…?”

You didn’t answer that question. So let me rephrase it: Is it ok to report that a furnace is function if it was not tested?

Yes or no?

Barry Stone

]]> By: Jim Mushinsky http://www.housedetective.com/2008/02/24/faulty-furnace-was-not-disclosed/comment-page-1/#comment-761 Jim Mushinsky Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:12:42 +0000 http://www.housedetective.com/2008/02/24/faulty-furnace-was-not-disclosed/#comment-761 Dear Barry, The heat exchanger is listed as an exclusion in the Standards of Practice for Professional Organizations such as ASHI and NACHI as well as many licensed States. In my experience I have not been able to find a set of home inspector regulations that does include the heat exchanger. I recommend the consumer check the list of exclusions prior to hiring a home inspector. I disagree with your article. Respectfully, Jim Dear Barry,

The heat exchanger is listed as an exclusion in the Standards of Practice for Professional Organizations such as ASHI and NACHI as well as many licensed States. In my experience I have not been able to find a set of home inspector regulations that does include the heat exchanger.

I recommend the consumer check the list of exclusions prior to hiring a home inspector.

I disagree with your article.

Respectfully,
Jim

]]>